Jury in session

The floor is open for Linda and Carl to make their opening statements in this section of the forum
After, it's up to the jury to ask questions

Opening Statement

First, I'd like to thank Max for hosting this game. It was awesome and I really enjoyed it and it was nice to have a game that wasn't filled with drama for once.

Anyway, now on to my opening statement. I feel that I should win this game because I played hard. I was always thinking strategically, playing a decent social game, and a good physical game as well. I was a key player in the game. I always knew who was going at every tribal and every person I voted out left the round I voted them out, and I never received a single vote against me at any tribal. I made one of the biggest moves of the game at the merge and changed the game. I attempted to make another game changer a couple of rounds later that a lot of you aren't aware of but that one didn't work out but even though it didn't work out, I had a back-up plan waiting. I was able to play both sides very well without being caught, I know some of you knew but the right people knew (the ones that wouldn't say anything.) I was able to flip on my alliance and not have them realized that I had flipped until I stupidly admitted it at the final 6 tribal (unbeknownst to me at the time, you guys were still able to see the challenge areas and tribal areas). I don't want to put everything out there in this opening statement so I'll end it here.

I'll be happy to honestly answer any questions you guys may have so don't hold back.

Once llieno94 makes his opening statement, the jurors can start asking questions

Hi guys! Firstly I want to thank Max for being such a good host. You really out a lot of effort into this game and we all can see it. Good job. Secondly I want to say thank you to the jury, because without you guys getting the boot I (obviously) wouldn't be here.

Coming into the game I really wasn't 100% committed and I didnt really talk to anyone the first few days. But once my tribe went to tribal council and I got very close to being voted out I knew I had to take control. Ever since the top 13 of this game I have been in a solid alliance where I not only knew who was going to be voted out, but I decided who was going to be voted out. I think I played a great social game as well. Aside from Arik I was aligned to every person on the jury at one point and I voted you all out, but I don't think I ever looked like the bad guy.

Honestly I didn't really make any big moves... not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't have to. I was always in control and am very proud of the way I played. I can't wait for your questions.

I'm gonna be busy all day today so I'm gonna start, you guys can respond when you feel ready.


First, I want to congratulate maniac and llieno for making it to the finals. Good job guys.

I just have a few comments and questions:

I’m a HUGE fan of the show Survivor. I’ve watched every single episode of every season, whether good or bad. And throughout the years I’ve seen people make some pretty big moves that change the game. This is just an online game but if this was a real season of the show, maniac, you have my utmost respect for the big move you made. What you did was unbelievable. Clearly, the result did not benefit me in the least. But I am curious to know a few things in regards to your strategy:

-Was it easy to lie to Arik, Daniel, Travis, Myself, and Kch that you were in an alliance with us when you really were not?

-When Daniel was voted out, I recall I was the only person who did not vote against him. So you and Travis knew that he was going to be voted out. Why didn’t you tell me, if we were supposed to be “allies”?

-If you had to give your spot to a juror (except me) who would you give it to and why? Please be specific.

-------------------------------------------------------

Llieno:



I read your opening statement and I was shocked. I was like, is this for reals? You say that, except for Arik, you were at some point in an alliance with all the jurors. Correct me if I am wrong (as in, show me proof) but I don’t remember ever talking to you in this game. At all. To me, llieno was that person who was just coasting along and riding Kathy’s coattails. Now, if that’s the game you say you’re proud of, I’m perplexed. Another thing is that you say you didn’t have to make any big moves during this game and yet on the same paragraph you say you were the one who decided who went home. You are pretty much contradicting yourself right there. So which one is it?

My questions for you:

-If you had to give your final 2 spot to one of the jurors (excluding me) who would you give it to and why? Don’t just say “spooky cuz he was third” or “Kathy cuz we were in an alliance”. Be VERY specific.


-Define “social game” based on what you think it means. We may have a conflicting definition of the phrase.


-Is there something about the way you played this game that would change?




Though it may not sound like it, I am still undecided who I am going to vote for. I don’t feel well voting for a liar (maniac) or a coattail rider (llieno) to win. But in your responses, convince me who is the lesser of the two evils and I may just give you my vote. I will also look at the responses you give to other jurors and will make my choice based on that as well.

Good luck to both of you!

My questions for Maniac:

1) Good game. Why did you turn against me?

My questions for Llieno:

1) I tried to speak to you a lot on MSN, just about every conversation about the game we had, with me REALLY strategizing hard with you turned into you having to talk to Kathy or having to ask Kathy...to me you didn't play your own game. Please explain to me how so you played a game that is deserving of the title of Soul Survivor???

2) Ugh. I do not understand your game at all. I am sitting here and trying to really think of questions to ask but I just can't because your game to me was being Kathy's wingman.

Well, Well.
Congrats to both of you for making it to the final 2. You both obviously had to do something right in this game.

Maniac:
You lied to me and did it perfectly. I really wanted to put our past aside and work together in this game but that didnt happen. But I do hope we can work together at some point in the future.
And as much as I hate it, that was the best move of the game. However you did get lucky that past votes came into play in that tribal. Especially since the only past vote I got was a penalty vote. So I screwed myself over more than you screwed me. So it might not have been a game winning move that some jurors may think. You also got lucky that RTF single handily won that first immunity challenge after the tribal swap. Because had he not done that you were going to be voted out that night with RTF at the next tribal. So I think half of your game was just luck. The best move that you made without any luck factor would be voting out Spooky. I think spooky would have destroyed you with jury votes. With all that being said I could be a bitter juror. But I might not. It depends on how you answer my question.

Llieno:
I, like most people, feel like you did nothing this entire game. Now that the game is over it looks like you were Kathy's bitch the entire game. Maybe that was your strategy or something. I dont know. But I dont think you are out of this game yet. And there is a chance you will get my vote, depending on how you answer my question.


Question:
My question to both of you is...
Make a list of the jurors and tell me who you expect each juror to vote for and why. If you give me an "IDK" or "its a toss up" or anything like that, you will not get my vote. I want clear answers and a reason for each answer. This will help me see if you actually ran the game or if you just think you ran the game.

I want to say congratulations on making it to the end Maniac.

llieno, I have no idea how you got here.

Honestly, you rode coattails to the end, you played like Art Garfunkel if he were to play Survivor.

Also, I dont think you were as in the loop in the game as the rest of us.

What I want to know from you llien, do you feel you deserve to be here? What moves di du actually make to get to the end.

Maniac: You played an awesome kick-ass game and really earned my respect.

My question: What do you feel was the big game-changing moment for you?

Response to Henry

-Was it easy to lie to Arik, Daniel, Travis, Myself, and Kch that you were in an alliance with us when you really were not?
No it wasn't easy to lie to you guys. I hate lying in games and I always get this weird feeling in my stomach that everyone knows when I'm lying and that makes them not trust me so I try to play honestly and the funny thing is when the game first started, my plan was not to lie at all but after like the first day I found myself aligned with Kathy and Maximus who were against each other so I decided to lie and play both sides. However, at final 8 I was being truthful with you but I was lying to you at the same time. I knew Maximus was the vote that round but I couldn't admit to knowing it without admitting to being the one who flipped, but I was being truthful in the sense that I was going to flip back and blindside spooky that round and I was all down to do it but in the end we only had 3 votes so I voted Travis and went back to my other alliance. I wouldn't have made up that plan just to get your hopes up and then crush them, I'm not evil.


-When Daniel was voted out, I recall I was the only person who did not vote against him. So you and Travis knew that he was going to be voted out. Why didn’t you tell me, if we were supposed to be “allies”?
I knew Daniel was going, I even asked that he be voted out that round. I didn't tell you because at that point I thought everyone knew I was the one that flipped and you all hated me but I found out soon after that you guys thought it was kch and I took that and ran with it. Also, I don't know how kch and Maximus found out Daniel was the vote that round because I didn't tell either of them and I was surprised by the 7-2, I expected a 5-4.

-If you had to give your spot to a juror (except me) who would you give it to and why? Please be specific.
I would give to Maximus. I was considering Kathy but I wouldn't give it to her because she asked to be voted out. If she wanted to, she would be sitting next to me. I would give it to Travis because to my knowledge he had my back completely and was always giving me information, always let me know when someone wanted me out, and he made me feel more secure in this game, and even trusted me after finding out I went behind his back to you and I hated backstabbing him the most.

Response to Daniel
1) Good game. Why did you turn against me?

Okay, here's what happened. At the merge, I had the choice of which alliance I wanted to go to and ultimately I chose Spooky, Kathy, llieno, and rtf for these reasons.

1. I felt I'd get further with rtf/Kathy/Spooky/llieno.
2. Maximus had showed me a side chat you guys had on MSN the night dude was voted out where you guys left me out of it and said you didn't trust me, you said you trusted the people in that chat and Henry so obviously I was just a number to you.
3. Arik didn't trust me and wanted me out, you didn't trust me, I was barely talking to kch at that point where I flipped, so when we made it to final 6, I think the only person I truly had was Travis.
4. With the Spooky/rtf/llieno/kathy/maniac alliance, it got me to final 5 and my plan was to pull rtf in and get a final 3 with myself/kathy/rtf.
5. I felt our alliance had the stronger competitors so I would have a harder time winning immunities if I needed them.
6. I felt the other alliance was stronger and nobody would flip from it and if I went with them, we would all go to final 5 without a problem. I thought there was a chance somebody from our side might flip down the line and I could be left scrambling to stay in the game or out of it in a blindside.

So basically I felt safer with the opposing alliance.

Response to Arik

You lied to me and did it perfectly. I really wanted to put our past aside and work together in this game but that didnt happen. But I do hope we can work together at some point in the future.
And as much as I hate it, that was the best move of the game. However you did get lucky that past votes came into play in that tribal. Especially since the only past vote I got was a penalty vote. So I screwed myself over more than you screwed me. So it might not have been a game winning move that some jurors may think. You also got lucky that RTF single handily won that first immunity challenge after the tribal swap. Because had he not done that you were going to be voted out that night with RTF at the next tribal. So I think half of your game was just luck. The best move that you made without any luck factor would be voting out Spooky. I think spooky would have destroyed you with jury votes. With all that being said I could be a bitter juror. But I might not. It depends on how you answer my question.

I disagree with some of the things in that paragraph. I think some of my game was luck but some of everyone's game is luck. Luck is getting a specific challenge that you're good at. Luck is being set up on a tribe with people who hate each other and will target each other and not you or being set up on a tribe with people who like you and will align with you. Luck is part of everyone's game. Anyway, I was originally going to stick with our alliance and vote out Spooky and I told Kathy as much and she replied telling me you would go due to past votes. (I wasn't aware of the past votes rule because I've only seen Survivor since the China season). So it was lucky that you penalty voted but it wasn't luck that past votes came into play that tribal.

Rtf didn't single handedly win that challenge. Rtf came to me saying you went to him wanting to throw the challenges and vote henry/me out. Maximus came to me saying he wanted to throw and vote henry/rtf out. I thought it was a lie you two concocted to play us against each other so I went to Kathy and asked her to throw the challenges and she did and she gave rtf the answers in that challenge so it wasn't luck, it was strategy.

Question:
My question to both of you is...
Make a list of the jurors and tell me who you expect each juror to vote for and why. If you give me an "IDK" or "its a toss up" or anything like that, you will not get my vote. I want clear answers and a reason for each answer. This will help me see if you actually ran the game or if you just think you ran the game.

Arik- Me because I'm hoping he's not a bitter juror, he appreciates a game well played, and believes llieno rode coattails.

Daniel- Me because I think he appreciates a game well played, isn't a bitter juror, and thinks llieno rode coattails to get here.

Maximus- Me because he appreciates a game well played, isn't a bitter juror, has a clear picture of how I played and the moves I made because he was one of my closest allies, and because he thinks llieno rode coattails to get here.

Kyorge- Me because he appreciates a game well played and thinks Llieno rode coattails to get here.

Kch- me because I actually did try to save her the round she left, she appreciates a game well played, and appreciates a strong competitor that win challenges (3 individual immunities in a row, and I came in 2nd to her twice)

rtf- me because I was honest with him and I did try to save him the round he left but I didn't have that final vote that we needed and I don't think llieno and rtf get along very well.

Kathy- Me because we had a final 2 deal and if she hadn't asked to be voted out, she would be sitting here next to me.

Spooky- Llieno because they were closer than him and I were, Spooky and I didn't converse much, and Spooky was probably going to bring Llieno over me.(I'm not sure but I think he would have)

Response to rtf

My question: What do you feel was the big game-changing moment for you?

The merge was the big game changing moment for me. Before then, I'd been able to lay low, play both sides, and gather information, but the merge was when I had to choose for sure which alliance I was truly in and I chose Llieno, you, Kathy, and spooky and that was game changing because if I hadn't, I believe you guys would have been the next 4 voted out and none of you would have made it to the final 5 but instead I flipped and you all made it to the final 5.

I'm not trying to sound cocky in this answer or any of my other answers. Cockiness annoys me.

Hey guys congratulations on making it to the final 2!!! You were both really nice to me throughout the game so it does make this vote hard since I like both of you:

TO MANIAC
- You said that you tried to save me the night I was eliminated. However I'd like to know how hard you tried, or whether you were just saying that to get a jury vote haha?
- Secondly I believe honesty is important and you do admit to lying quite a bit lol. If someone can get to the end of this game without being dishonest, I believe they deserve to win. So who do you think played with more integrity, you or Ilieno?

TO LLIENO
- Maniac won the last 3 challenges as well as organised a game changing flip, so do you think Maniac put in more effort in this game than you did?
- You said a lot of nice things to me about how hard it would be to vote me out and I said how much I need immunity next, however you didn't seem to have any trouble eliminating me first in the targeting challenge when everyone else still had X's. You didn't even give me a chance, so basically you showed no respect for me, so why should I respect you lol?

Good luck both of you, whoever answers the questions the best will probably get my vote.

Response to kch78094

TO MANIAC
- You said that you tried to save me the night I was eliminated. However I'd like to know how hard you tried, or whether you were just saying that to get a jury vote haha?

I didn't try super hard but I did try. On a scaled of 1-10, I'd say I tried on a 6.5. I felt Kathy was the only person I could get the final vote that we needed to tie it up so I went to her. (I couldn't go to spooky since he was the target, I thought rtf would tell spooky and llieno because llieno told me rtf wanted me out, and I thought llieno would tell spooky and even if he didn't tell spooky, I knew he wouldn't go for it because he was close to spooky) I didn't want to over do it because the vote could have been changed to me. Kathy was puzzled over a vote she received in a previous tribal and said she thought it was between you, spooky, and rtf that did it and I ran with that. I replied telling her that both you and rtf told me you voted for Henry so it was Spooky. I also said that we would be outnumbered at final 5 so it would be a smart thing to form a final 3 which would be maniac/kch/kathy and if she didn't want to do that, I also suggested that we blindside spooky and vote you out at the next tribal (I figured it would have gotten you one step further and maybe we could have figured something out in the next vote to keep you and if that didn't work out, I could just vote you out.) I think I also talked about spooky/llieno having a final 2 because I was worried about them around the time you got voted out.


- Secondly I believe honesty is important and you do admit to lying quite a bit lol. If someone can get to the end of this game without being dishonest, I believe they deserve to win. So who do you think played with more integrity, you or Ilieno?

This is a hard one because we both lied. Llieno, by his own admission was aligned with everyone at the merge as was I. He flipped on his original to side with a new alliance as did I, he only did it pre-merge. I think I told more lies than him because I lied after I flipped in order to cover all of my bases but he also form final 2 deals with myself and spooky knowing he couldn't keep both so he was doing his fair share of lying himself and I think he might have been lying to me about rtf targeting me in order to pit myself and rtf against each other so we both lied a lot but if I had to choose one, I'd say myself because I don't know exactly how much how lied, I just have an idea.

Kch, I forgot to add that I stopped trying to convince Kathy when she signed off and stopped returning my pms. I waited like 10-20 mins for her to come back on but she didn't and she never got back to me on a final decision so I voted you out. I figured she didn't want to do it and just didn't want to say no to me.

Oh kch, you're too nice to these guys,

Maniac, I have another question based on reading your first response. You said that you even asked for the vote to be me, when I left. What were your reasons for putting the vote on me? You said you only trusted Maximus from our alliance so don't say you didn't trust me or that I didn't trust you because that would go for everyone else in the alliance as well. Was it based on personal issues we have had in the past?

Response to Daniel Part 2

I knew you were going to ask this when I posted that. It had nothing to do with anything personal, it was strictly strategic. At that point, it was between kch/you/maximus/henry. I wanted to keep Max for as long as possible because I trusted him the most. I wanted to keep Henry because I thought I could blame my flipping on him (sorry Henry but you mentioned to Travis and I that he didn't trust arik and I could have used that as his motive to flip and vote out arik and it wouldn't be hard to believe), and I wanted to keep kch because I believe I pmed arik with a fake screenshot to prove that I didn't vote for him and he responded saying he thought it was kch so I wanted to keep kch so he would continue to think it was her. When it came to you, I couldn't think of any pros to keep you so I wanted you out.

Also, your vote wasn't 100% me. I'd love to be able to take responsibility for it but it wasn't, I believe everyone agreed on you without a fight so you had a huge target on your back that round and you would have probably went even if I didn't target you that round.

Response to Henry-

you say you didn’t have to make any big moves during this game and yet on the same paragraph you say you were the one who decided who went home. You are pretty much contradicting yourself right there. So which one is it?

I think that making a big move and deciding who goes home are two totally different things. Making a move is one moment or happening within the game that is meaningful, but deciding who goes home each week just means I positioned myself in the best possible situation for me to be in and it really payed off.

-If you had to give your final 2 spot to one of the jurors (excluding me) who would you give it to and why? Don’t just say “spooky cuz he was third” or “Kathy cuz we were in an alliance”. Be VERY specific.

If I had to give my spot to one of the jurors (excluding you) it would be Daniel. In the couple of weeks I spent playing with him he was always talking strategy and always thinking ahead of the game. When he was on the outs he didn't seem to give up, even after I told him he was probably going to be voted out he persisted and tried to flip it. For the deal of cards he got I think he played very well and he would be my pick for the most deserving juror.

-Define “social game” based on what you think it means. We may have a conflicting definition of the phrase.

My own definition of a social game-

Ultimately survivor isn't about making friends, but you do have to talk to people and form bonds (whether they be genuine or not) to make sure you are always safe and (for the most part) liked.

-Is there something about the way you played this game that would change?

Absolutely not. This game was easy for me and I was always in a good position. Not because I was riding coattails (which I WASN'T) but because I made it that way. BY MYSELF.

ALSO: You're right, you and me never talked, which is why I forgot about you. Sorry!

Response to Daniel

1) I tried to speak to you a lot on MSN, just about every conversation about the game we had, with me REALLY strategizing hard with you turned into you having to talk to Kathy or having to ask Kathy...to me you didn't play your own game. Please explain to me how so you played a game that is deserving of the title of Soul Survivor???

Daniel, when we did strategize with each other I was never really listening. I knew what I wanted to happen (game wise) and you and me never saw eye to eye. The night you were going to leave I knew I wanted you gone and nothing you would say would change my mind so me saying "I will have to talk to Kahty" was nothing more than a way to get you to stop talking to me. That may sound harsh, but that's the truth.

As for you seeing me ride Kathy's coattail it couldn't be farther from the truth. After the first tribal we went to (dude was voted out) Kathy came to me throwing a hissy fit about how I was so horrible and that it was terrible of me to turn against her after how mush she has helped me in Season 41. To me it was really quite comical the fact being that I didnt even vote. I knew that we would be swapping tribes soon and that I could use Kathy to my advantage as an ally. She was desperate. We were good friends before the game and I knew it wouldnt be easy for her to flip on me so we teamed up (which was totally my choice, being that I could have voted her out easily next tribal). It definitely payed off because Kathy helped me tremendously through the game! But that doesn't mean I rode her coattail! It simply states that I was smart to team up with her.

In fact after merge Kathy became very inactive and I did almost everything with Spooky. ITS CALLED AN ALLIANCE. I work best one on one. I do in every game and I think that you all are perceiving me as a coattail rider just because Kathy was more active.

I am really sorry you see me as Kathy's wingman, because winning or losing is at stake here, but I really wasn't riding her coattail.

Response to Arik

Make a list of the jurors and tell me who you expect each juror to vote for and why. If you give me an "IDK" or "its a toss up" or anything like that, you will not get my vote. I want clear answers and a reason for each answer. This will help me see if you actually ran the game or if you just think you ran the game.

First of all, good question! I would never think of it.

Arik- I think your vote will got to maniac because talking to you I know you are a fan of keeping the strong and such and I think that you think I am a coattail rider. NOTE: Please read my other answers.

Daniel- I think Daniel will vote Maniac becuase he perceives me as "Kathy's wingman"

Travis- I think Travis will vote for me because we have talked a lot (in and outside of the game) and I think he understands my game better than any of the jurors. Not because he plays like me, but because we have been closely aligned before.

Henry- I think Henry will vote for maniac because he praises him for the move he made. Just one move. Flipping at the final 10 isn't that hard to do.

Kendra- I think Kch will vote for me because I think her and I connected on a personal level.

RTF- I think RTF will vote for maniac because he obviously thinks I played a bad game

Kathy- I think that Kathy will vote for me because we were closley aligned through the game and I think she knows I didnt ride her coattail one bit.

Spooky- I think Spooky will vote for me because we were very closely aligned in the game and he knows that I would have taken him to the finals if it was my choice<3

Response to KCH

- Maniac won the last 3 challenges as well as organised a game changing flip, so do you think Maniac put in more effort in this game than you did?

Perhaps. But putting a lot of effort into a game doesn't mean you are more deserving. I didnt have to put an immense amount of effort because I always made sure I was safe ahead of time.

You said a lot of nice things to me about how hard it would be to vote me out and I said how much I need immunity next, however you didn't seem to have any trouble eliminating me first in the targeting challenge when everyone else still had X's. You didn't even give me a chance, so basically you showed no respect for me, so why should I respect you lol?

Honestly I didnt have any trouble removing your X's. You were a force to be reckoned with and I knew that I need you out of the game ASAP, as did my alliance. But it was hard for me to vote you out, because I really did like you. But I had to think of my game, not my friendships and unfortunately you needed to go.

Thanyou Maniac and Ilieno, I think I have enough.

Maniac, a week ago when you said you were trying to save me I actually thought you were lying, so thankyou for clearing that up..and sorry for doubting you I guess haha

And Ilieno I understand about the challenge, but I just hope you understand that it felt awful being eliminated BOOM BOOM BOOM and then watching everyone else take X's off evenly. I went in knowing that I needed to win and you had said a lot of nice things to me previously, and it felt really disrespectful how I just got three X's in a row and wasn't given a chance. It kind of felt like all the nice things you said were just fake.

But I'm still going to analyse all the answers before making a decision.

Respones to RTF-


What I want to know from you llien, do you feel you deserve to be here? What moves di du actually make to get to the end.

I whole heartedly believe that I deserve to be here. I know that maniac made a big final 10 move and it is easy for you guys to see the move he made because it is more apparent, but you have to look at the bigger picture of the game itself. I always made it so that nobody disliked me, I always had a strong alliance and that I was always deciding who was going home. It wasn't easy to achieve that! It didn't just happen! I had to earn peoples trust and position myself in a strong place. And it really worked because no one ever came after me, I didn't ever have to scramble for votes, I won the social challenge (that is a testimony of my game right there), and people trusted me.

If you want one puny little move that is easy for you to see I will say that my biggest move was aligning with maniac for a final 2 at the F4, becuase I knew his F2 (kathy) was leaving and that he needed one, and if me or spooky didn't win F3 immunity he would be taking me.

Hope that clears things up for you a little, RTF.